The Palate of a Winemaker

Mar 15

In the first part of this winemaker interview series, we talked to several winemakers about the deep-seated traditions and familial legacies that form the bedrock of their wineries. Now, we shift our focus to the individual artisans behind the bottle. After all, what happens when a winemaker goes out to a restaurant, and they want to try something other than their own wine? We mean, winemakers have an intimate view and understanding of what it takes to make a good wine, so that means they should be excellent judges of what actually is a good wine. So we went back to the producers, asking them about how they taste wines, and what some of their favorites are, and their answers were surprising! After all, when surrounded by some of the world’s finest wines, what bottles can pique one’s interest?

Following are answers we received from seven Vero Producers: Aldo Clerico from the Langhe, Alberto Pagliantini from Canalino in Montalcino Tuscany, Bruce and Gretel from Clos des Amis in California, Davide Febo from Abruzzo, Andrea Ivaldi from the Monferrato, Guido Corino from Case Corini, and Hilde Petrussa from Vigna Petrussa in Friuli Venezia Giulia.

Evaluating Wine

There are fewer wine professionals more experienced in wine tasting in the world than the producers themselves. However, when they taste, it is often to analyze their product, to figure out how the wine is evolving, aging, or drinking. So how do they do that? How do they judge, evaluate, and critique a wine?

How do you evaluate a wine when you taste it? For example, do you use a certain technique, do you give a “rating” etc.?

Aldo Clerico: I have no specific technique to winetasting. I believe that you either like the wine or not, to put it very simply. When I taste a wine, I think: Do I like it? Does it have defects? Would I want to enjoy another bottle? Would I recommend it to a friend? Very simple questions; in the end, wine can be made in any way, but it must be a pleasure to enjoy.

Alberto (Canalino): When winetasting, I adopt a technique that I have acquired over the years. I don’t score or rate the wine, rather I observe the color and its intensity, then I determine the density by observing the internal drips of the glass, and lastly I evaluate the bouquet and taste, thinking about the aftertaste and finish.

Bruce (Clos des Amis): I look for balance and interest.

Gretel (Clos des Amis): I definitely don’t give it a rating. I want a wine to elevate the moment so I can be in that moment.

Davide (Febo): I believe that there is nothing more wrong than giving a score to wine. You can not reduce everything to a number. There are too many things to consider, human work, experience, vintage, soil, type of processing in the cellar, aging container, and I could go on. How do you reduce everything to a number or to pre-established evaluation rules?

Guido Corino of Case Corini tasting wine with us at the family winery.

Andrea (Ivaldi): I do not use numerical scores. I prefer to express my judgement with statements, such as “it was very good, but it lacks tannin”. So, I do not assign votes, but I prefer a more descriptive and open approach to wine evaluation.

Guido (Case Corini): I am not a big fan of tasting techniques and even less of evaluations. I think appreciation is very personal, and I respect the "tastes" of each of us.

Hilde (Vigna Petrussa): I do not like to give scores. I use visual, olfactory and gustatory parameters to give a an overall evaluation.

What do you look for in a wine to make it stand out? For example, what are the typical characteristics or standards you use to evaluate a wine you taste?

Aldo Clerico: If the previously mentioned criteria are all answered yes and I am satisfied, for me that means it is a good wine.

Alberto (Canalino): I want to see good color, taste and pleasantness during a meal.

Bruce (Clos des Amis): Something that makes me wonder what is going on in this wine, what faults does it have or why is it so wonderful.

Gretel (Clos des Amis): I want fruit, interest, balance.

Davide (Febo): I try to contextualize every wine with the territory. I try to evaluate how it expresses itself, its balance while tasting, and over time I realized that it is really all relative. The aspects that matter most to me are consistency with the vintage, with the identity of the territory of origin, the wine must tell a territory, this for me is fundamental.

Davide Febo and his family enjoying a glass of wine in the vineyards.

Andrea (Ivaldi): I do not know why, but I feel like when you taste a wine, it seems that everyone – oenologists, consumers, journalists, sommeliers – try to find a defect. “This is missing”, maybe “it's too sweet with too little acidity”... it’s as if we have to make perfect wines at all costs. Often, we do not consider the vintage or the climatic conditions in which the grapes were grown, and pass unreasonable negative judgments. Instead, I feel we should be more open and consider the context. Sometimes, I have tasted wines that I did not know and judged them badly, but then I discovered that the year there had hail or was very cold, and therefore, for that vintage, that wine was actually excellent. In general, in white and red wines, I look for liveliness, a little acidity, and balanced tannins. I do not like flat or too tannic wines, nor those that taste too much of oak or wood. I mean, everyone has their own tastes, and evaluating a wine is difficult. Yet, if I know the DOC and the grape well, like a Barbera or a Nebbiolo, I feel I can be more or less objective. However, if I taste an unknown wine, I can only say if I like it or not subjectively.

Guido (Case Corini): For me wine is something unique, linked to the territory, to the people who produce it and to the moment in which it is tasted. The most important condition is that it is good, authentic and that it is remembered beyond the simple tasting.

Hilde (Vigna Petrussa): I evaluate multiple characteristics together: starting with the aromas, then the mouthfeel, the elegance, and finally the overall drinkability.

What characteristics and situations do you strive to avoid in tasting your wine?

Aldo Clerico: When tasting, I strive to not be biased.

Bruce (Clos des Amis): I like to avoid in my wines any commercial blandness.

Gretel (Clos des Amis): I don’t want anything that keeps me from tasting the honest grape.

Davide (Febo): Tasting, I try to keep calm. I'm kidding of course, but I believe that every producer, with their own wines, has a significant emotional connection. With my minds, I know everything about the wine I taste, how it was aging in the tank, how it improves, how maybe right after bottling I find it less expressive yet a year later I find it at the peak of expression. Every time I make and I taste one of my wines I try to contextualize it with its past and its journey, but above all I try to respect it.

Andrea (Ivaldi): I avoid tasting my wines in the cellar because the smells of the environment can confuse all the aromas. I prefer to take it to a friend's house or to a laboratory, where repeated tasting in the same room will not alter my perception of it. In the cellar, there is a risk of not sensing aromas that in a neutral environment would be more evident. So, I prefer a neutral place, where the aromas and potential defects emerge more clearly.

Alberto of Canalino, tasting his wines in the cellar.

Guido (Case Corini): Perhaps I would avoid being alone.

Hilde (Vigna Petrussa): I try to avoid subjectivity. I taste it as if it were a wine made by others, analyzing it objectively.

Playing Favorites

Ok, so now we have an idea how a winemaker tastes their wine, and how the evaluate (or don’t evaluate) what they are tasting. But what about their true subjective preferences? What is a winemaker’s favorite… and more importantly, when they have a choice to sip… what do they choose?

What is your favorite wine to make, and why? What is your least favorite wine to make and why?

Aldo Clerico: Nebbiolo-based wines are my favorites to make because I like the characteristic tannins typical of this grape variety. However, I cannot say which is my least favorite to make as all of my wines are like children for me producer and I like them all.

Alberto (Canalino): My favorite wine to produce is Merum (a Rosso di Montalcino Riserva) because it always very pleasant to drink and a fabulous wine. My least favorite is the Rosso di Toscana just because it is too simple to produce.

Bruce (Clos des Amis): I prefer to make clean terroir-driven wines; reds that capture power and whites that display elegance. I don’t know about least favorite wines, as even making an unsuccessful wine is a learning experience, a challenge to understand the grape.

Gretel (Clos des Amis): White wines are a lot of work, but I’m a white wine fan so I find the extra work of filtering and dialing in acidity to the exact balance is worth it. For Reds, I’m a Rhône girl and I love grenache. In winemaking, I love sitting with cylinders and creating the perfect blend. Least favorite wines, well so far I haven’t made a Zin that has the nuance I am looking for, but hoping to work with some grapes in a small local vineyard to make that happen.

Davide (Febo): Let's say that it is easier for me to answer which wine I have more or less difficulty with in the harvest, rather than “favorites”. There are a thousand considerations to make. The most difficult wine to produce is probably the Cerasuolo: it is not easy to find the right balance between freshness and structure, body and depth of the sip, not to mention the color. Instead, the wine where I struggle less is the Motepulciano, perhaps because it is harvested towards the end of the season, so I am pushing through on a last wind and know that this is the last effort, or perhaps because I am convinced that the fact that the juice has contact with the skins can help from a certain point of view. Rather, it means that I have a few more cards to play so to speak.

Andrea (Ivaldi): The wine that gives me more satisfaction is the Barbera, both during production and after. I like to follow every stage closely, especially during the daily pump-overs. With white wines, once fermentation has started, the work is less visible and less frequent. Instead, with Barbera, the daily pump-overs allow me to observe and feel the evolution of the wine. It is gratifying to see how it transforms during aging and in wooden barrels. Barbera gives me more satisfaction because it is a wine that is lived intensely, from the vineyard to the bottle.

Artwork of winemaker Andrea Ivaldi, found in the winery.

My least favorite wine to produce is Brachetto. Every year, it has peculiarities that make it unstable, both in color, which varies from too dark to too light, and in ripening. It is a difficult vine, difficult to ripen fully the grapes. In some vintages it is fragrant and intense, in others less so. Winemaking also presents difficulties. Leaving it to macerate for 3-4 days, there is a risk that alcoholic fermentation will continue too long with too high of an alcohol. I have to rack it halfway, when it reaches 4 degrees of alcohol, in order to then block it at 6 percent alcohol, all while maintaining the sugars. Sometimes, however, fermentation goes out of control and it will reach 6.5 percent, if we are not careful to rack it in time. Furthermore, it is difficult to filter, because it is rich in colloids that clog the filters. In short, Brachetto is always the most problematic wine to produce.

Guido (Case Corini): I love making Bricco, as it was a challenge started with my father and in which I believe a lot. I don’t really have a least favorite wine in particular, I find every vintage has its best and its damned.

Hilde (Vigna Petrussa): My favorite is the Schioppettino in all its forms. What I like is to interpret this territorial vine in different ways, retracing its history, its tradition, and bringing it to new future evolutions. The Schioppettino is the vine of my land, it is the protagonist of the Prepotto subzone and of my family. These grapes were my father's favorites, who used to produce it sweet and in limited quantities only for friends or for festive moments. Over the years the Schioppettino wine has been opposed, prohibited, rehabilitated and today it is the great protagonist of Prepotto. I produce it in four different versions and the Perla Nera is the one that most closely remembers the way my father made it: a tribute to the history of my family and a link to the most beautiful memories. My least favorite is the Ribolla Gialla. Although it derives from an indigenous vine that I esteem very much, I consider it a wine that is too vertical and limited in its drinking period (because I find it more suitable for summer than for other seasons).

Is there a particular wine or grape that you have on your radar to try and make?

Aldo Clerico: Honestly no, because I already make wines with the typical grape varieties of my area (dolcetto, barbera, and nebbiolo) and I do not see the need to produce international grape varieties.

Alberto (Canalino): I would like to try to make Ansonaco, but I would have to move to the Maremma coast to do that.

Bruce (Clos des Amis): Sure, there are plenty.

Gretel (Clos des Amis): My pet project right now is Albariño. We have diatomaceous soil on South Mountain and I want to see how it affects that particular grape.

Davide (Febo): I have a particular interest in North Piedmont wines like Boca, Gattinara, and Ghemme.

Andrea (Ivaldi): I would like to vinify Pinot Noir as a red wine. Currently, I vinify it in rosé to produce an Alta Langa, but the vineyard is not ideal for a red wine. It is located in a relatively low vineyard, where the sun arrives only late in the afternoon. These conditions are optimal for an Alta Langa or a white wine, but not for a classic Pinot Noir. So, yes, I would like to vinify Pinot Noir in red, but only once I have access to a more suitable vineyard.

Aldo Clerico tasting some of own Barolos.

Guido (Case Corini): In the future I would like to experiment with new places and vines, especially in areas in coastal areas with ancient vines, perhaps on a small Mediterranean island.

Hilde (Vigna Petrussa): Certainly, acutally it is a desire that has recently become reality. I wanted to try my hand at growing malvasia istriana, so I planted the cuttings a few years ago and waited. The 2023 vintage was the first, and it is only the beginning of new experiments and interpretations.

Aside from your own wine, what kind of wine do you look for when you are “out and about” at restaurants, etc?

Aldo Clerico: At restaurants, I like to taste Chardonnays made in France. I also adore the wines of South Tyrol and Collio area. For reds, I really like the Tuscan and Veronese area wines.

Alberto (Canalino): I like to try a little of everything, but I prefer Italian white wines of all kinds.

Bruce (Clos des Amis): I search for wine varietals I haven’t tried yet, or that I may be interested in pursuing.

Gretel (Clos des Amis): If it is a special occasion, bubbles for sure, otherwise a pairing with the food I am eating. At this point, I am still a young winemaker, so I am open to experiencing wines from different regions.

Davide (Febo): Normally when I have to choose a bottle I prefer wines or wineries that share a production philosophy similar to mine. I get excited for wineries that work with real wines like me. I will more often choose white wines, but of course it depends on the context and the food I'm eating. To mention a specific wine that I love, lately I was recently enchanted by the Riesling Falkestein 2015.

Andrea (Ivaldi): At a restaurant, as for white wines, in addition to Champagne, I really appreciate a Chablis. I also liked the volcanic Malvasia from Lanzarote, even if it is difficult to find in my area. Among Italian white wines, I love Etna Bianco, Inzolia and Catarratto, the various whites from the Marche, and sometimes I treat myself to a Gewürztraminer or a Nosiola from Trentino. Vermentino from Sardinia is also among my favorites. I am always looking for particular wines from small DOCs, such as the Campanian Coda di Volpe, and from small wineries. For red wines, in addition to the Barbera from my region, I adore Nebbiolo in all its nuances: Gattinara, Barolo, Barbaresco, Sassella. I also appreciate Morellino di Scansano, Sangiovese, Sardinian Cannonau and Etna Rosso. As for foreign wines, I actually do not particularly like Syrah, Merlot and Cabernet. Instead, I really like the wines of Macedonia, Montenegro and Serbia. However, in general, for reds, I prefer Piedmontese wines.

Guido (Case Corini): I am always very inspired by my fellow diners, by the place where I am, by the advice of the host and by the atmosphere of the moment.

Hilde (Vigna Petrussa): I love Pinot Noir, but also Amarone, basically for a red wine I like the most structured wines. For white wines, I prefer those of Alto Adige.

Winemaker Hilde Petrussa (right) enjoying a glass of wine at a restaurant with her daughter Francesca (left) and Vero founder Sheila Donohue (center).

What is the most memorable wine that you ever had, and why?

Bruce (Clos des Amis): There is not one but many surrounding the opening of the bottle. - A spontaneous enjoyment of a 1976 Petrus. - An Ojai Vineyard Pinot Noir Fe Ciega Vineyard. - A Gold Medal/Best of Class Clos des Amis 2014 Grenache, South Mountain Vineyard

Gretel (Clos des Amis): I have three, all in France. When we went to Bourgogne, I tried a Volnay, the “lady’s Pinot” and fell in love. Then when we were traveling in Dordogne and had a Bandol Rose of Mourvèdre that was in a little cafe stop. Cheap and incredible. Last was a trip to Alsace. The Riesling wines of Ostertag were laser focused and perfectly balanced. A lesson in winemaking for sure.

Taste Like a Winemaker

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